Episode 23: Help! I Can’t Stop Binge-Watching Before Bed

Show notes:

Ever stream something before bed, listeners? Ever fall asleep still listening to your speakers or headphones? Have you ever put on something new and just lost track of time?

If so, it’s possible you’ve been binge watching. And you’re not alone. I do it too, sometimes. According to recent surveys, an estimated 70 to 90 percent of Americans routinely binge watch.

That’s not entirely surprising. The advent of streaming and the ability to consume countless hours of nearly anything is still relatively new. And the associated health concerns are still being studied. So how does binging like this really affect our sleep? Is it that much worse to binge in bed?

Episode-related links:

Bedtime Binge-Watching Is (Really) Not Helping You Sleep
New Survey Shows People Are Choosing Their Favorite TV Show Over More Sleep
I Use Podcasts to Fall Asleep Every Night — What Are the Risks? Here’s What Doctors Say

Transcript:

Dr. Shelby: How are you sleeping? Are you sleeping? I’m Dr. Shelby Harris, Director of Sleep Health at Sleepopolis and this is Sleep Talking with Dr. Shelby. Today, we’re talking to Sleepopolis Head of Content, Molly Stout, about late night binge watching.

But first, is your sleep worse if you sleep with a pet? Last spring, a study published in Scientific Reports found that more than half of surveyed pet owners were woken up nightly by their pets due to noise, movement, or excess heat.

The study also found that dogs were more likely to disturb their co sleeper than cats, despite the psychological comfort a dog might provide. In some surveys, the study found that co-sleeping pet owners took longer to fall asleep and were more likely to feel tired upon awakening. But there’s research now, believe it or not, that actually suggests that some people actually benefit from having a pet in their room. So it’s kind of mixed.

So as I often say, you do you, you know, if you have a dog that’s snoring really loud, that’s causing you to wake up the snoring dog is this thing that I hear all the time, then you really need to think about whether that’s helping you or not.

Where do you weigh in on that? Molly, do you have any pets?

Molly Stout: You know, I don’t currently, but I’ve had cats over the years, and they are obsessed with crawling under the covers and, like burrowing in, when you’re in the bed. Yeah. So medically, scientifically, what’s the deal with that?

DS: I don’t know. The cats coming in and, I mean, I’ve never had cats. People, please don’t come at me for never having cats. I’m a dog person. But once the animals start getting into the bed, that can sometimes be a problem for some people. And I hear that cats do that a lot too.

MS: Definitely.

DS: If you like Sleep Talking with Dr. Shelby, take a second right now to write us a review on Apple Podcasts. I know it seems simple, but it does help reach a lot more people to get them the rest they deserve.

And if you’re tired of hitting that snooze button, hit the subscribe button instead. A new episode of science back sleep tips is available every other Wednesday on YouTube and everywhere you listen to your podcasts.

Ever stream something before bed, listeners? Ever fall asleep still listening to your speakers or headphones? Have you ever put on something new and just lost track of time?

If so, it’s possible you’ve been binge watching. And you’re not alone. I do it too, sometimes. According to recent surveys, an estimated 70 to 90 percent of Americans routinely binge watch..

And what about the kind of content that we binge on? Is it possible that a true crime podcast, for example, could have a different impact on your day to day functioning versus, say, a health and wellness podcast like Sleep Talking with Dr. Shelby?

That’s what our Head of Content, Molly Stout, has been wondering herself the last couple of years, since she’s “literally been putting herself to sleep with murder podcasts. for the last decade.” Molly oversees the creation of articles, posts, videos, and podcasts for Sleepopolis. Molly, we are so excited for you to join us, so welcome to Sleep Talking with Dr. Shelby.

MS: Thank you so much. I’ve been listening to every episode, so I’m excited to finally be part of one.

DS: Thank you and thanks for everything you do. I’m glad to have you here.

So now Molly, I’m curious before we get into any nighttime habits, could you describe your day to day a little bit? So when does your day start? What’s your usual routine look like?

MS: So I am lucky enough to have a six year old daughter, which is a wonderful alarm clock, highly recommended. But you know, I wake up around six or six 30, which is when she wakes up, she gets into bed with me. It’s actually very pleasant.

I am one of those people who needs to go straight from the bed to the coffee machine, get my coffee, then I can sort of relax a little bit. So, you know, all day I’m working for Sleepopolis, of course, producing some of our news and health content.

And then it’s back to parenting when it’s pick up time, end of work. A lot of people call that the second shift for parents.

DS: Yeah.

MS: And so that really gets squared away by, I’d say, 8:15 PM at the latest. And again, I don’t think I’m alone. For parents out there, it sort of feels like that’s the first time of the day that you sort of get to be, quote unquote, by yourself or relax a little bit.

DS: Yeah.

MS: And for whatever reason, I’ve just, I’m sure I can ask my therapist why, but I’m soothed by somewhat tense, thrilling, like dramatic, somewhat scary content actually. Part of it is on screen, you know, I’m currently re-watching Game of Thrones, which is not light fare. It’s lots of violence, lots of mystery, lots of murder. Not true crime, but crime. And for the last 10 years, as you said, I’ve really gotten hooked on narrative podcasts. My favorites do have to do with murder, true crime, the mysteries of solving them. It all started with Serial, 10 years ago, which I’m sure a lot of people remember.

DS: I listened to that. Yep.

MS: Did you? Yes. So it’s funny because I just remember hearing a ton of people talking about it and I was like, at first I thought they were talking about cereal as in the breakfast cereal and then finally I started listening to it before bed and I could not stop listening to it. And it took me, you know, a few weeks but I finally figured out how to set an alarm to the podcast so that you don’t wind up like listening all night long. So that you can actually pause as you’re falling asleep. But long story short, I knew I wasn’t alone when another podcast called My Favorite Murder launched. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this one, but it’s a bunch of very-

DS: No.

MS: You said you like comedy.

DS: I like comedy.

MS: Not comedy about murder?

DS: I… we… no…

MS: Got it.

DS: I can’t even, we’ll get into it, I can’t even handle Law and Order, watching it. I know when you hear it, like the first two minutes, there’s going to be a murder in the beginning. I know it’s happening. I still can’t watch it. So Serial is about as much as I’ve gone.

MS: So I knew I wasn’t alone and you know, some of the top podcasts, even if you look at them now, like the top 50, top five, even, they are sort of revolving around true crime. And so, you know, it’s focused on lore. Then there’s a lot about mysteries that aren’t just murder related.

For example, now I’m listening to one called Hysterical, and it’s about a mystery not having to do with murder, but it’s about like a mysterious medical situation that was happening upstate in New York.

But I’ve often said there’s one podcast, the last one I’ll mention here, but it’s called Casefile, and it’s Australian. And it’s quite literally just a man, an anonymous man, describing from start to finish, a story of a true crime that happened in Australia, like no guests, no interruptions, nothing. Just this one little man with a wonderful Australian accent describing a crime.

And I call that my melatonin. I mean, if I put that on. I’m easily put to sleep, and it’s odd, I know. And I’ve always wondered, you know, I know I’m not alone in this, but if I’m listening to dark stuff when I’m falling asleep, I do wonder, like, what is that doing to me overnight? What is it doing to potentially my dreams? And also, does it affect in any way your mood during the day after listening to all this stuff?

DS: Well, do you think that there’s any impact?

MS: You know, I haven’t noticed any.

DS: Yeah.

MS: My mood is pretty good during the day, even after I listen to this scary stuff.

DS: I’m one of those people, and I hope that listeners have figured this out by now when it comes to sleep, that I’m not a one size fits all person. There are certain things like, right, like drinking a two liter bottle of Diet Coke before bed might not be ideal, but for most people, like we got to see what works for you.

And take me through, like, if it doesn’t seem to impact your sleep, like, how does this work? Like, do you get in bed and put it on? I’m so curious about this timer thing because I actually know nothing about this, so teach us.

MS: Yes, so, you know, it really is me getting into bed. This is after I’ve done my nighttime routine. This is after my daughter’s in bed. This is after I’ve relaxed with my partner. This is after, you know.

DS: Like nine ish?

MS: No, I have a little later bedtime than that.

DS: I’m so early.

MS: But no, it’s, I would say it’s around 10, 10: 30.

DS: Okay.

MS: So this is pajamas on, teeth brushed, face wash, like all the proper things that you do.

DS: Okay.

MS: Getting under the covers finally. I am a reader before bed and I do, unfortunately, do it on my screen, but moving on.

DS: And we can talk about that too in a minute. Yeah.

MS: Yes, we will. Yeah, we have to. But you know, I don’t want to fall asleep with a screen in my face. So I put all that away. And instead of something like a noise machine or sound machine, I put in my AirPods and I’ll turn to, you know, whatever the latest chapter is in a certain mystery that I’m listening to.

It could be just a standalone episode. It could be part of a series that I’m catching up on over the week, but either way, I put it on and it can be super dark. Like, doesn’t matter how dark. There’s a podcast called Sword and Scale, if you’ve heard of it, you know what I’m talking about. Don’t listen to it if you haven’t heard of it. Warning.

But I do notice, you know, my body relaxes. I get really drawn into the story. Eventually my mind just sort of relaxes and I’m out within less than 30 minutes, I should say. But the interesting thing that you can do, and again, it took me a while to discover this. Was you can have a timer on your podcast, whatever, if it’s Apple, if it’s Spotify, whatever it is, there’s an option. You can do, you know, stop playing when the episode ends. And that can range from however long they are hour and a half. Or you can do, you know, stop playing after 30 minutes, something like that. I know a friend who does that.

So yeah, you have a lot of options. And I, I almost wonder if that tool was, like, created for people like me who are listening to podcasts to fall asleep.

DS: Probably.

MS: Yeah.

DS: Probably. It’s so interesting. I mean, I feel like you’re saying that you don’t notice it impacting the quality of your sleep. You don’t have routinely vivid dreams or nightmares about these things. You feel fine. You need your coffee in the morning. I mean, I do too, but you feel fine during the day.

So I wonder if maybe there’s something to be said about listening to something that’s – I don’t want to say technical, but it’s got like, there’s stuff to focus on, right?

MS: Yes.

DS: But I wonder if that in a way for you is a way to quiet your brain, right?

MS: I wonder about that too, because you know, there are other options and there are plenty out there. There are meditation podcasts you can listen to to fall asleep.

DS: Yeah.

MS: There are literally, you know, bedtime stories that are popular that people can listen to.

DS: Yeah.

MS: And that comforts them and that sort of relaxes them and relaxes their mind. Is there, you know, and maybe this is an open question we can’t answer necessarily, but is there something about certain people, certain personalities, where, you know, the relaxation comes in from hearing a story that could turn in any direction that might be somewhat dangerous, you know?

I also wonder if it’s related to the fact that I love horror movies. You know, not to fall asleep to necessarily, but a lot of my friends do not want to watch any horror. I know a lot of people who are like, nope, I don’t want to see it. I don’t want to hear about it. There’s no way I’m going to buy a ticket to a movie if it involves anything scary.

And I’m drawn to that. I find it really thrilling. I find that like, it gets feeling out of you, whether that’s excitement or fright or anything like that.

But I do wonder, you know, if you need to turn that off before bed, you know, you’re binging a crazy, scary show, and then you know you’re not going to fall asleep to that, but is there some kind of technique between turning off the show, turning off the podcast, and then getting into bed? Is there something people need to do, to sort of go from one stage to another?

DS: There’s not one size fits all. It’s a bit of trial and error for some people. So you were talking about the horror movies. Like I was just, I just this past weekend had dinner with three girlfriends who absolutely love murder, horror podcasts. They see horror movies in October and call the entire month Shocktober.

MS: Oh, I want to meet these friends.

DS: I know. I take no part. I’ve known them for years. I take no part in this stuff so they can watch that stuff at night and listen to it and be fine going to bed. I could never, I mean, even if I listened to something like that during the day, it would still, like, freak me out for hours.

So it’s a little bit of trial and error, right? So even for me, if I watch like a really heavy drama that just really was gripping, I can’t do that right before bed. I need to have a good two hour buffer. And then what do I do? I might read, I might watch or listen to something that’s lighter that I could kind of go in and out of. I have to have at least a two hour buffer between something that’s really heavy.

So like right now the Olympics are going on and I’m watching it way too late and I love the track and field and the marathon coming up and all this stuff. And I get so sucked into it that I actually, even with something like that, I have trouble

quieting my brain down. So it is trial and error. And there’s no one thing that works.

It might just be putting on something else that is relaxing that doesn’t take up so much mental space. It might just be taking all media all together and putting that away and doing something like, I mean, it could be reading, but sometimes that’s even stimulating for some people, right?

So it’s finding what works for you. And then figuring out the amount of time that you need for certain things. And then also knowing that once in a while, you’re not going to be perfect with it. You might get stuck staying up really late watching the Olympics or whatever.

MS: It is funny that you mentioned like the falling asleep to reading as well, which is something I do try to do. You know, I’ve had a few nights, more than a few here and there over the past 10 years of being a true crime obsessive, where I don’t actually have access to a podcast or like I’m on vacation, I forgot something. And I find it difficult to go to sleep without any stimulation. Whether it’s a screen or something, audio, whatever it is, some people, you know, maybe if they’re on vacation, they don’t have their favorite sound machine and you find yourself just like all of a sudden everything is still and dark and quiet. And it’s a little bit unsettling. Whereas a lot of people need that to fall asleep.

DS: So people, people often ask me, like, what do you think of white noise machines? What do you think of weighted blankets, podcasts, or even like you were saying, like the meditations, the sleep meditations, or the bedtime stories? If it works for you and you have no problem with it and it’s great, then go ahead and use it. That’s fine. But you have to be prepared for that night when maybe your phone isn’t working. You can’t get that podcast, or are you going to be willing to bring a 15 pound weighted blanket with you everywhere you go to be able to sleep, right? So it’s, it’s those sorts of things that you need to think about. The white noise. You get very attached to it. And for people who are trying to get off of using something like a podcast or they really just don’t want to do it because they don’t like how attached they are to it, or even like the meditations, I encourage people to kind of slowly taper down on it.

So like you were doing with the timer to make the timing less over time. Or I’ve had patients that will have the TV on and we’ll, we’ll talk about that for sure. They’ll have the TV or now it’s more like a phone or iPad in their face. And instead I’ll say, okay, let’s move from that, let’s turn the brightness down on it. Or let’s move to, like, a radio that’s going to play so you’re taking some of the stimulation from visual and noise and you’re now starting to reduce it a bit. So then it can be a radio and you’ll have something talking or a podcast. And then from there maybe move it to white noise and then just slowly turn the volume down on the white noise.

But if you don’t mind the times when you can’t have it with you, then you’re okay with it. Like, it doesn’t usually impact someone’s sleep. When it does, people know, they definitely know.

MS: Yeah. And you’re talking a lot about, you know, screens, which, you know, we read a lot of stories all the time about how terrible screen time is, especially for kids. But you know, looking at Gen Z, for example, I mean, they’re more likely to be binging a great show on their iPad or laptop or whatever it is. And a lot of the time, you know, they’re doing it in bed, they’re doing it through the, like, you know, from day to night, that’s sort of their evening routine is to binge a show.

So they’re in bed, the lights are basically going down. There’s no more sun. They’re all set up like for falling asleep. And yet they have this blue light, this big screen in their face. And, you know, if that’s happening so often, are there any sort of, dangers to that behavior, because as adults, I mean, I’m an adult. I’m not, certainly not Gen Z, but I’m pretty addicted to my iPad at night, you know, whether it’s for reading or anything like that. And we read so many horror stories, like, don’t do this, you know, put your tech away. But it’s just a habit of so many generations of people.

So I do wonder, you know, is it worth, you know, trying to wean off of it if nothing negative in your life is going on? Like, if nothing seems to be impacting you, if you’re able to fall asleep, is it really that bad?

DS: Yeah, that’s a great question. So my colleague, Dr. Gradisar, has really made it a mission, I think over the past year or so to really try and dig deep into the data about how bad blue light is.

MS: Right.

DS: And he’s been saying something that I really, he’s kind of hitting the nail on the head a bit more. And that the initial study that was done, I want to say 10 to 15 years ago at Harvard, if I remember correctly, that study that looked at blue light and the impact on trouble falling asleep, it delayed sleep by 10 minutes. 10 minutes. I know it’s shocking, right? Given how much society has taken the, like, limit blue light an hour to two hours before bed rule. And people have all these fancy tech and glasses and all this stuff to block the blue light.

MS: Yeah. Blue light blockers, all these kinds of gadgets you can attach. Yep.

DS: Exactly. 10 minutes. And so blue light is not the best thing, but it’s also not the worst thing for sleep. So the way that I actually try to think about it a bit is that if you’re someone like, I, I love people to not have to rely on having a screen in front of their face just because like what happens if it’s not working, that sort of stuff.

But if it’s working for you and it doesn’t seem to create any sort of an issue and you’re sleeping fine and you’re able, the key is you’re able to set a boundary for when to go to sleep.

MS: Yes.

DS: So you say, okay, I’m going to watch this and then I’m going to have this, this limit of, okay, 9 PM is my bedtime, 10 PM, whatever. Then you’re fine.

MS: Yeah.

DS: Right? I, I’d prefer people to try to find other things, but I, the Gen Z stuff, I cannot tell you how many people I have worked with and talked with over the years that love to watch either Friends or The Office before bed. Just those two shows. It’s fascinating. So those two shows, like those are pretty lighthearted shows to be watching before bed.

If you want to watch Game of Thrones and it’s not doing anything. Go ahead. Like, I don’t mind that. Then it becomes a discussion of, it’s not about, okay, screens are fine. That’s not it. It’s about who are screens okay and not okay for.

And that’s when we’re talking about binge watching, right? So binge watching is a real issue in our society. Like people will use screens. Like we talked about, like that revenge bedtime sort of stuff. Like the only time that they’re having before going to sleep at night is this like, I need to steal back some time for myself.

I am not against people finding time to do that. I do that myself. But when it starts to routinely cut into your ability to turn it off and go to sleep or it’s impacting your ability to turn your brain off because then you’re thinking about what you’re watching or you’re stimulated. That’s when we really have to be thoughtful about who the screens are good and not good for.

So again, one size does not fit all here.

MS: It’s funny too, you mentioned that because there are, you know, a few occasions, and I am just a binge watcher, a binge podcaster, all of it. I do tend to fall asleep while I’m watching, while I’m listening. But there have been a few nights, in particular, that stick out in my memory, and they were when I could not fall asleep, despite, you know, my normal behavior.

And I’ve noticed, you know, if I’m extremely stressed or, you know, something tense is happening in my work life, personal life, whatever it is. … Doesn’t turn out well. And what I mean by that is, you know, if I was going, I remember going through something, family related, you know, something we all have.

And I was binge watching Breaking Bad at the time, and I watched, it must have been like 10 episodes overnight, like I just never fell asleep, and I was watching this pretty dark material, you know what it’s about. And normally, like, if everything in my life were sort of going the way I like it to go, if life were stress free, I don’t think it would have been an issue.

But that particular night, and I’ve had a few like that, where even listening to one of my mystery podcasts, you know, I’ll listen… there was a night where I stayed up all night or maybe till four or five in the morning, just listening to episode after episode. And normally I’d be able to fall asleep, but I was having some kind of professional drama, you know?

So I do wonder, like, if you have some sort of disturbance in your life, like that has nothing to do with sleep, has nothing to do with your binging habits, you can see, or I’ve seen, I should say, it’ll disrupt my sleep no matter what, like no matter what my best comforts are, you know, so they only go so far is something I would say.

DS: Yeah. And I think there’s something to be said for watching those things, to just distract from having to think about the other stuff.

MS: Yes, that’s such a good point. Yes.

DS: Right? Not to say that you needed a huge distraction. I mean, I don’t know personally what was going on, but there are people routinely who have, for example, depression. Patients I work with all the time.

And they’ll just watch stuff very late, delay going to bed, either because they can’t fall asleep because whatever is happening in their brain is making it hard for them to turn it off. So this is a way to distract. Or some people will say, like, the minute I turn that stuff off, then all the stuff is going to come back to me. And I’m going to start thinking about all the stressors or whatever it is that’s going on in my brain at night. So then you get caught up in it. Right? Very easily. Which is a big problem.

I will say that Breaking Bad – my husband doesn’t like me to share this so much, but he, I remember years and years ago when it first came out, he was up, not trying to avoid anything, but he got sucked into that show. And I remember, like, coming out at three in the morning and finding him watching it, late at night. I cannot handle that stuff. I will never watch that stuff.

MS: You know, it all started with Netflix because Netflix made it so easy to just jump to the next episode and when Breaking Bad came there, it was, all bets were off.

DS: Yep. So quick tip people, if you want. And I highly encourage it, I do it myself, is Netflix and a lot of the streaming services, you can turn off autoplay. So turn it off so that at the end of every episode, you might get annoyed, but you have to make an actual decision. Am I going to now lose sleep over playing another episode? So autoplay.

MS: Absolutely. And that’s the same, same tool with the podcast. You can set a little timer and make sure you don’t just automatically play into the next episode or the next show.

DS: You get sucked in very easily. Right? I’ll watch Bridgerton. Great British Bake Off. All that sort of stuff. No problem. And I could easily watch episode- I watch such fluff. It could be episode after episode for hours on end.

So yeah, there are tools out there to really help. And if you’re someone who is using your phone a lot and you’re like not even just binge watching shows, right? It’s just the excessive scrolling.

MS: Yep.

DS: Right? Instagram, TikTok, all that sort of stuff.

MS: Addicted to scrolling, addicted to social. All of it plays in.

DS: Oh, so common. Then it’s like, there are actual apps that will turn your phone off. So you can set even the Wi Fi to turn it off at a certain time or your phone can actually automatically shut off.

So there are things that are go arounds. We just have to be willing to really set those limits for ourself.

MS: I think I’m learning definitely through talking to you that no matter how sort of dark or true crimey or scary the stuff that soothes you might be, as long as it’s not actually disrupting sleep or keeping you up or turning into something that’s more of an addiction, then, you know, whatever works, works.

DS: Exactly. So like, for example, I have some patients who have insomnia, and one of the treatments for insomnia, which goes against common sense completely, is something called sleep restriction. So we actually have patients who are not sleeping well, we’ll have them limit their sleep to fewer hours at night. So I’m having these patients stay up a lot later sometimes, hours later.

And last week alone, I had one patient who said to me, I said like, how are you going to stay up later? And she said, I don’t know. I struggle with falling asleep. It’s the middle of the night. That’s the issue for her. And she said, you know what, I’m just going to watch crime procedurals, right? And police procedural dramas at night.

And she watches that sort of stuff to help keep her awake to then keep up to a certain time to then go to sleep. And it still doesn’t impact the falling asleep, but now she stays asleep a little more because she’s staying up a bit later. So we can use these things actually therapeutically as well.

MS: Yes. And it’s so interesting that one person would be kept up by something like a crime procedural, whereas other people find, like myself, you know, we find that relaxing, actually.

DS: Yeah. You do you, as I love to say.

MS: You do you.

DS: You do you. I always, like, if it’s working, And it doesn’t create, like, almost like an addiction where it’s stalling sleep or making it hard to fall asleep. And you’re not like, oh my gosh, if I don’t have it on me in the future, then it’s fine. I don’t really have an issue.

MS: And also, you know, that you make sure you’re not using it as a crutch. Not for sleep, but for any kind of mental health issue that might be going on. Like you said, with depression, it’s very easy to fall into distractions by TV and sort of focusing all your time on fictional lore, you know, going on the internet and like finding a ton of other people who are discussing the same Game of Thrones episode, you know, that can all be, you know, relieving or distracting from your real life, quote unquote, but if that’s what you’re doing sort of day and night and then when it all goes away, all the screens are shut down and you find yourself alone with your thoughts and they’re not tolerable, you know, that might be more of a mental health thing.

DS: Exactly. Exactly. And I think the other thing to consider too, is I was talking about screens, thinking about who’s really appropriate for watching something before bed or not.

The other thing to consider too, are like kids and teenagers, especially teenagers. I have a 14 year old. He does not have his phone in his room after a certain time. It’s like, that’s it.

MS: How did you do that?

DS: I’m very strict with it. And we also have like, we’ve had apps on there over the years that will turn the phone off at a certain point.

MS: Yep.

DS: But we actually charge, I’m okay with it, we charge the phones in my room. So he comes in very quietly, puts his phone on the charger, and I know I can see what time it was turned off and all that sort of stuff. Because the reality is teens and kids, but teens, they don’t have their, their prefrontal cortex is not fully formed.

And that’s the part of your brain that’s rational. Judgment, reasoning. It’s not even formed until you’re about 25, believe it or not. So asking a teenager to put their phone down to go to sleep is, like, there are some who can do it. Good for them, but it’s rare.

MS: It is.

DS: So those are the limits that you have to put. Like, I still don’t want them falling asleep with stuff, ideally, because they will delay sleep a lot.

MS: It’s true. And you know, going back to what I mentioned in the beginning of the episode, you know, I have a six year old. When she wakes up super early, which, you know, she doesn’t have any sleep issues, really, which I’m very lucky.

DS: Yeah.

MS: But one small issue is she’ll wake up a little early. She’ll wake up maybe too early, maybe 5:30, something like that. And I know, you know, if I’m still sleeping, She’s very smart for a six year old. I’m sure they all are, but like they figure out a way to get to the iPad.

DS: Yeah.

MS: And so she figures it out and then she’ll spend about half an hour sort of, you know, I’m very strict with what’s on the iPad, of course, but she’ll go watch her kid stuff for about half an hour in the morning. And then she sort of will slowly, like, wake me up, but I have this feeling that if I hadn’t sort of set limits with her early on with an iPad and went through already, like all of those screaming matches of like, nope, like I’m taking it. You don’t, can’t have it anymore. After a certain time.

I went through all of that and it hurt at the time. It was hard for her at the time. But at this point, like, if I, if it all wound up at this point where she can watch it for half an hour and then wake me up, that’s great. But I do, I hear from a lot of parents, you know, who are still struggling with that, where if they set a certain limit and, you know, I know this is far away from the topic of binge watching, but it is about screens and everything like that and addictions.

And they really will get into, you know, physical fights with their kids, whether they’re six or 10 or whatever it is. Screaming, crying when you take away their screen. And it’s strange to use the word addiction with someone so young, but it does seem pretty common these days.

DS: I mean, so many people are addicted to screens right now. It’s like the ability to put it down without distress and not be- one of the things that I think is really telling is to just look at your i- if you have an iPhone, to look at how many pickups you have. How often you actually touch your phone and pick it up.

MS: Oh, pickups, because everyone looks at minutes, but I don’t know that people know to look for pickups.

DS: How often you touch your phone, right? It’s shocking.

MS: I think I’d be terrified to learn.

DS: So it’s like if you can’t, if you feel distressed, the urge, you can’t, like it makes you anxious to not have it. It’s really the thing that you’re relying on all the time. Then that’s a problem. And with kids, there’s going to be- who are used to using it- there’s going to be outbursts. I mean, that’s part of parenting, unfortunately, right? Setting a limit. If someone sets a limit for me and tells me I can never have an ice cream sundae again, I’m going to, I’m going to have an outburst, right?

So there’s, there’s things that are going to be outbursts and it’s about staying consistent. And if you stay consistent for a few days, usually it will start to wind down after a while.

MS: I hear you. It’s the same probably with, you know, the true crime binge watching and all of that. It’s like, if it’s not turning in, as we said, like, if it’s not turning into an addiction, if you can get through a night, like I have, you know, without it, without having an outburst yourself, and you can soothe yourself to sleep in some other way, I think it’s probably all good to binge watch true crime, right?

DS: All good. Figure out what works for you. And, and the other thing too, is like, if you’re worried that it is starting to impact negatively your end of night routine or being able to go to sleep routinely at a certain time, and I don’t expect perfection. Like I said, I’m stuck watching the Olympics a lot of times right now, late.

But if you really want to try and make that an actual goal for you, then work backwards. So set your goal bedtime, set an alarm on your phone to go off at a certain time, set reminders. I’m a huge fan of reminders. Some people can’t stand them, but I will have an alarm go off on my phone like on every night at the same time saying, start getting ready for bed. Just to remind me because sometimes I get sucked into stuff and I’ll lose track of time so things like, that to work backwards

Allow time to decompress. If you can’t find time for a half hour show or ten minutes even, here and there half- hour can be hard some nights, but if you can’t find time routinely to have a little bit of time to decompress routinely, and if it’s got to be with watching a show, fine. But you got to make the time for it and schedule it in.

You need that schedule to help as your framework. So then it then will help with the bedtime at night.

MS: Yeah. And I mean, I think my last sort of, I don’t know if it’s a question so much as a curiosity is, you know, you’re talking about the Olympics as being something that you sort of, is part of your nighttime routine. You’re watching it. It’s sort of joyful. It’s exciting. And you know, myself, many other people based on Reddit, love these scarier things, you know? Whether it’s horror, whether it’s Game of Thrones, whether it’s true crime, anything like that. And this is sort of saying the quiet part out loud, but is there anything necessarily wrong or, you know, an issue if that kind of content is the stuff that really soothes you?

I mean, I know I’m not committing murder by day, even if I’m listening to it at night, and I’m certainly not mimicking any of this behavior. I just find it entertaining. I’m lucky I don’t have like nightmares on a regular basis about the stuff that I’m watching. So, speaking on behalf of this true crime obsessive community, there’s nothing wrong with us, right? We’re not dark people.

DS: I don’t think so at all. And the thing that I will say to people, if they’re concerned if something might be an issue or not, the behaviorist in me always comes out. Why not just do an experiment? So one week, one week with your true crime, one week with maybe something a bit lighter, one week with nothing within like 20 minutes of bed.

I like to do like a good week experiment as opposed to like a few days. You’ll get a better picture. And if it doesn’t make a difference, fine.

MS: Then we’re okay.

DS: Then you’re okay. It’s really about how do you feel during the day, right? If you feel fine, you have a dip here and there, like after lunch. Then you’re good to go. If you’re not having any nightmares, you do you, as I said.

MS: I feel healthier.

DS: There you go.

MS: Mentally and sleep wise.

DS: There you go.

MS: Thank you so much for all these, for all these answers.

DS: Thank you for speaking on behalf of a population that I cannot, I relate but not relate in many ways.

So Molly, as you know, we always like to end with something to sleep on. One last point you want to share with anyone looking to change their sleep habits. So when it comes to binge watching and sleep, do you have any final thought for the audience, given everything that we’ve discussed, say, something to sleep on?

MS: I do. I mean, I think, you know, based on the huge audiences for these types of podcasts, for these types of shows that I’m talking about, and I mentioned Reddit sort of in a joke, but not really. I mean, Reddit’s gotten a lot more sort of grown up over the past few years, and there are thousands and thousands of people who, you know, post about things that they’re watching, love to chat about it.

And I know that I’m not alone in falling to sleep to some true crime stuff. So, you know, whatever works, I think, is something that you have pointed out over this, over this time that we’ve been chatting and just to borrow from sort of the medical community, like, you know, do no harm. So I think as long as you are doing what works for you and then also doing no harm to yourself, most importantly, but to others. Combining those two philosophies, I think works when it comes to this topic.

DS: Thank you so much for being here, Molly, and for sharing your thoughts with our audience. This was really fun to talk about something like this that I do not do myself. So I know a lot of people have questions about binging, whether it’s podcasts or TV or this episode. So thank you again.

MS: Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Shelby.

DS: Thanks for listening to Sleep Talking with Dr. Shelby, a Sleepopolis original podcast. Remember, if you’re tired of hitting snooze, hit subscribe to follow, right now on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you’re listening. And for even more sleep tips, visit sleepopolis.com and my Instagram page @sleepdocshelby.

Today’s episode was produced by Ready Freddie Media. Our Senior Director of Content is Alanna Nuñez. Our Head of Content is Molly Stout, and I’m Dr. Shelby Harris. Until next time, sleep well.